The FitzHerbert Family

Lucy FitzPiers

Father: Piers FitzHerbert

Mother: Alice FitzRoger

Married: William de Ros

Children: Notes:
This charter by Lucy's brother, Reginald FitzPiers is witnessed by the de Ros brothers, Robert, Peter and William, the latter being Lucy's husband.
Monasticon Anglicanum vol 6 part 3 p1196 (William Dugdale, 1846)
      NUM. CXII.
Carta D. Reginaldi filii Herberti, de ecclesiâ de de Wiverthorpe.
    [Adhuc ex dicto Registro, part. 2. fol. 7.]
  OMNIBUS Christi fidelibus præsens scriptum visuris vel audituris, Reginaldus filius Petri, salutem in Domino. Noveritis me dedisse, concessisse, et hac præsenti cartâ meâ confirmâsse decano et capitulo sancti Petri Eborum, pro salute animæ meæ, et animarum antecessorum et hæredum meorum, advocationem ecclesiæ de Wiverthorpe, cum pertinentiis. Habendam et tenendam eisdem decano et capitulo, et successoribus eorum, de me et hæredibus meis, in puram et perpetuam elemosinam, liberam et quietam ab omni seculari servitio, et exactione in perpetuum. Ego verò Reginaldus et hæredes mei warrantizabimus, &c. eisdem decano et capitulo, &c. contra omnes gentes in perpetuum, &c. In cujus rei testimonium præsens scriptum sigillo meo roboravi, his testibus, dominio Roberto de Ros, domino Petro de Ros, domino Willielmo de Ros, domino Roberto de Thweng; domino W. de Wivele, et aliis.  
This roughly translates as:
The succession of the Lords of Roos after the marriage of Peter Lord of Roos to Adeline, sister of Walter Especk.
      NUM. 112.
Charter of D. Reginald son of Herbert, concerning the church of Wiverthorpe.
    [Further from the said Register, part. 2. fol. 7.]
  TO ALL the faithful of Christ who shall see or hear this present writing, Reginald son of Peter, greeting in the Lord. You shall know that I have given, granted, and by this present charter have confirmed to the dean and chapter of St. Peter of York, for the salvation of my soul, and the souls of my ancestors and heirs, the advowson of the church of Wiverthorpe, with the appurtenances. To be held and held by the same dean and chapter, and their successors, of me and my heirs, in pure and perpetual alms, free and quiet from all secular service and exaction for ever. But I Reginald and my heirs will warrant, &c. to the same dean and chapter, &c. against all nations for ever, &c. In witness whereof I have hereunto affixed my seal to this writing, with these witnesses, lord Robert de Ros, lord Peter de Ros, lord William de Ros, lord Robert de Thweng, lord W. de Wivele, and others.

Lucy sued her children Alice and Peter for dower in 1289-90.
Lincolnshire Notes & Queries vol 9 p249 (1907)
  EXTRACTS FROM LINCOLN ASSIZE ROLLS.
  Coram Rege Roll, 126, A.D. 1289-90
… m. 9. Lucy, who was the wife of William de Ros, demands against Alice de Ros the third part of the manor of Ulseby, co. Lincoln, and against Peter de Ros, the third part of a manor in Yorkshire. Alice vouches to warranty Robert de Ros, and is to bring him before the justices.

William Dugdale states here, citing Glover, Somerset Herald, that Lucy was a daughter to Reginald Fitz-piers of Blewlebeny in Wales, but modern historians show that she was the sister, not the brother, of Reginald.
The Baronage of England vol 1 p547 (William Dugdale, 1675)
  And departing this life before the end of that year, left Iſſue by Lucia a his Wife (daughter b to Reginald Fitz-piers of Blewlebeny in Wales)
  a Monaſt. Angl. Vol. 1. 728 b l. 9.
  b Gl. Somerſt

and this is copied by John Nichols and in early versions of the Complete Peerage:
The history and antiquities of the county of Leicester vol 2 part 1 p29 (John Nichols, 1795)
  William de Ros, the eldeſt ſon and heir of Robert, … married Lucia, daughter to Reginald Fitzpiers, by whom he had three ſons, Robert, Alexander, and Peter; and at his death was buried in the church of Kirkham priory, before the high altar.

Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct, Or Dormant vol 6 p400 (George Edward Cokayne, 1895)
      ROS, ROOS,(a) or DE ROS.
Barony in fee. I. 1264.
  1. ROBERT DE ROS, of Hamlake, otherwise Helmsley, and Trusbutt in Wartre, co. York, and (jure uxoris) of Belvoir, co. Leicester, s. and h. of William DE ROS, of Hamlake and Trusbutt afsd., by Lucy, da. of Reginald FITZPIERS, of Blewleveney in Wales

but the information is modified by Cokayne in the 1949 edition:
The Complete Peerage vol 11 p94 (George Edward Cokayne, enlarged by Geoffrey H. White, 1949)
      ROS or ROOS OF HELMSLEY
  SIR WILLIAM DE ROS, …  m. Lucy.(h) He d., probably, in 1264., and was bur. at Kirkham. His widow was living in Mich. term, 1266.(j)
  (h) Rievaulx Chartulary, p. 360. She is said by Dugdale (Baronage, vol. i, p. 547), citing Gl[over], Somerset Herald, to have been da. of “Reginald Fitz-piers of Blewlebeny in Wales.” If she belonged to this family, she was presumably sister of Herbert FitzPiers and of his br. and h. Reynold FitzPiers, and da. of Piers FitzHerbert, lords of the Honour of Brecknock, whose castle was at Blaenllyfni. Piers FitzHerbert m. in 1203, his son Reynold not till 1249 (Curia Regis Rolls, vol. iii, p. 6; Close Rolls, 1247-51, p. 200).
  (j) Lincs N. and Q., vol. ix, p. 249, citing Coram Rege Roll, Mich. 50 Hen. III, m. 9, recording her claim for dower in Ulceby, Lincs, against Alice de Ros, and in a manor in Yorks against Piers de Ros.

The case for Lucy being the daughter of Piers FitzHerbert is made by John P. Ravilious in soc.genealogy.medieval (18 March 2007):
A. Werthorp (Wiverthorpe), Yorks. was one of the holdings of the FitzHerberts (later lords of Blaen Llyfni), and was to be found later in the maritagium of Mary de Ros, wife of Sir William de Braose of Bramber and Gower.
  1. Grant, 1109x1119 by Thomas, Archbishop of York to 'Lord Herbert the Chamberlain, and his son in fee Londesbrough, with Tolthorp, Wiverthorpe, ....' ["Thomas Dei gratia Eboracensis archiepiscopus,.... Notum vobis facio, quod ego dedi domino Herberto Camerario, et filio ejus, in feodum Laundesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe, ...."] [1]
  2. Confirmation, 1135x1143 by King Stephen to 'William the treasurer of York, my chaplain.... Know that I have grant to the same William those churches held in fee by Herbert his brother, .... that is, the church of Wiverthorpe, the church of Laundesbrough, and teh church of 'Cleram', with chapels and appurtenances; and the church of Staunton .... And will and precept that these be held well, peacefully and honorably just as by his father and his brother Herbert to whom these were given and granted , and just as the charter of King Henry attests. ' ["Stephanus rex Angliae ... Sciatis me concessisse eidem Willielmo [thesaurarius Eborum, capellanusmeus] ecclesias quas tenet de feodo Herberti fratris sui,... scilicet ecclesiam de Wiverthorpe, ecclesiam de Laundesbrough et ecclesiam de Clera[m], cum capellis et pertinentibus; et eccelsiam de Staunton cum terris et decimis omnibus et rebus eis pertinentibus. Et volo et praecipio, quod bene et in pace, et honorifice tenent, sicut pater ejus et frater ejus Herbertus eas ei dederunt et concesserunt, et sicut carta regis Henr. testatur. Testibus, G. archiepisc. Eborum; D. episcopo Elm. et Johanne episc. Sag. et Roberto de Veer; et Willielmo Martell, apud Eborum. ' [2]
  3. Confirmation, 1154x1181 by Stephen, son of Herbert the Chamberlain, of the grant by William de Scures to St. Peter's of York of the church of Blessed Mary of Thornton and then advowson of the church of Acklam. [3]
  4. Grant, 1264x1269 by Reginald fitz Peter (d. 1285) to St. Peter's of York of the advowson of Wiverthorpe [final concord between Reginald fitz Peter, querent and William, dean of St. Peter's, in the court of King Henry III at Westminster,n 53 Hen. III].[4]
Wiverthorpe [als. Werthorp, Weaverthorpe], co. Yorks. or a moiety thereof was evidently the maritagium of Lucy, daughter of Piers fitz Herbert and wife of Robert de Ros. Her granddaughter Mary de Ros had lands in 'Werthorp' as her maritagium when married to Sir William de
Breuse [5].
B. Chronology supports Piers fitz Herbert as Lucy's father.
Sir William de Ros and his wife Lucy were likely born say 1200-1210. Their eldest grandson, Sir William de Ros of Helmsley, was born ca. 1253-1255, and evidently before 27 June 1255 (he was stated as being aged '30 and more' at one of his father's IPMs, 27 June 1285). The Yorkshire IPM states he was '32 and more' on 12 June 1285 [6].
Piers fitz Herbert and his wife Alice were married ca. 28 Nov 1203, the date of their marriage settlement [7]. Lucy could have easily been their daughter: it is virtually impossible for their son Reynold (born say 1204-1214) to have been the great-grandfather of Sir William de Ros (b. ca. 1253/55, or before).
C. Onomastic evidence supports the FitzHerbert identification of Lucy's parentage.
The issue of Sir William de Ros and his wife Lucy include a second son Piers, and a fifth son Herbert, both FitzHerbert names. We have a charter of Sir Robert, witnessed by his brothers Sir Peter, Sir William, Sir Alexander and Sir Herbert [ " Hiis testibus: Dominis Petro de Ros, Willelmo de Ros, Alexandro de Ros, Herberto de Ros, militibus et fratribus,..." ] enfeoffing Thomas de Werke, chaplain, in certain lands in Helmsley, dated 1264x1285 [8]. Evidently, Piers de Ros was named for his maternal grandfather. As to the two known daughters, the source of the name of Lucy is obvious; that of Alice (wife of John Comyn of Badenoch, whose maritagium included the manor of Ulceby, co. Lincs.] was taken from Alice 'fitz Roger', wife of Piers fitz Herbert.
The evidence for this identification I find is quite compelling, to the point where I see no basis for dispute. That is, that Lucy was the sister (not daughter) of Sir Reynold fitz Piers, and daughter of Piers fitz Herbert of Blaen Llyfni.
NOTES
[1] Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum VI(3):1196, Num. CIX.
[2] Dugdale, ibid., Num. CX.
[3] Dugdale, ibid., Num. CXI.
[4] Dugdale, ibid., Nums. CXII, CXIII.
[5] CP II:302, note (i).
[6] Yorks. Inqs. II:32-36.
[7] CP V:465.
[8] Rutland MSS. [HMC series], IV:84, no. (21).

Death: after 1266

Sources:
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